The Israel-Gaza war and wider Middle-East tensions

who ever said that intent was key? when is intent ever key? what is happening is key. action is key. 1200 innocent Israelis have been killed vs 22,000+ innocent Gazans. and a tiny handful of Hamas leadership in the double digits. "intent is key" is a cheap as fuck way of saying it doesn't matter how many innocents are killed because we have no beef with them.

"intent is key" and "what's happening is heartbreaking but that's war" *shrug emoji* are such privileged/IDGAF responses to what's going on in Gaza right now.

but also online.. like.. here..
where's the antisemitism here? report it to a mod and have it dealt with if it exists. tossing the term around and deliberately conflating contempt for a corrupt government's contemptible war strategy with hatred for Jewish people does nothing but minimise actual anti-semitism.
 
Israel does not intend on wiping out Gaza.
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The dismissiveness of what Israel is doing in order to support an argument really does baffle me.

Being a supporter of Israel as a country and criticising the Israeli regime as horrendous cunts who should be tried in court for mass murder is okay. That isn’t anti-Semitic. The Israeli government does not represent the global Jewish population and thank fuck it doesn’t.
 
Either way it's not for Moopy to decide what this is or isn't, however resulting in legalities , differences in the semantics, and comparing with the holocaust to make an argument says a lot.
 
We'll see what the court says, I suppose? Because that will give us a definitive verdict either way.

In that meantime though @Shaib, genocide or not what do you call the slaughter of more than 20,000 people within a couple of months? What does it make you feel?
It's horrendous and horrifiying, and I am truly heartbroken and petrified by the brutality of both sides.
Every innocent life is precious and i'm saddened to my core with every new story that consist death and destruction in this conflict.

On a personal level, I've lost friends and acquaintances from both sides during this
atrocious war, and I cannot bare to watch so many familes losing their loved ones.
 
where's the antisemitism here?

calling what's happening a "genocide" - meaning there's an intent to maximize the number of dead innocent civilians, is anti-semitic.

it is deeply rooted in the idea that Jews are inherently evil.
 
calling what's happening a "genocide" - meaning there's an intent to maximize the number of dead innocent civilians, is anti-semitic.

it is deeply rooted in the idea that Jews are inherently evil.
it's rooted in the idea that Israel is bombing Gaza with clear intent to cause maximum destruction every day babes. you're seeing what you want to see. how do you explain "safe routes" being targeted and people killed on their way out. hospitals, camps, UN refuge points. there's mountains of evidence of all this happening constantly, I assume you look the other way since it doesn't fit your narrative. easy to do!

nobody here thinks Jews are inherently evil. I know you don't believe we do either. again, easy to throw a word around but this is classic chaos theory strategy and you're very transparent.
 
none
Hamas told me 22,000+ innocent civilians died! only a tiny handful of Hamas leadership were killed!
Israel is bombing Gaza with clear intent to cause maximum destruction every day!
"safe routes" are being targeted and people killed on their way out. hospitals, camps, UN refuge points!

nobody here thinks Jews are inherently evil babes.

girl... :eyes: you're accusing me of "seeing what i want to see" when you are drenched with devious Hamas propaganda.

imagine believing stories and news about Jews spread by an Islamist terrorist sect that beheads Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc. and running with them as facts.

sometimes it's HARD to believe that Europe stood by and watched as Hitler slaughtered, starved, and gassed 6 million Jews three generations ago, but seeing so many people willingly jump to swallow and spread ISIS-like sects' propaganda about Jews makes everything look so much clearer.

no, not all the people who die are "civilians," THOUSANDS are Hamas terrorists who are dressed as civilians.
no, Israel does not "target and kill innocent civilians on safe routes," in fact Israel constantly leads Gazans to safer routes and informs them when and WHERE there will be bombings to escape.
and no, Israel does not bomb hospitals, caps, and UN refugee points if they do not believe it's been infiltrated by Hamas.

many people here DON'T understand Hamas.

these people (Hamas, not Israel) believe that the MORE Gazans DIE, the better. they believe that they are all martyrs. they don't mind sacrificing as many innocent Gazans as they wish for the "Palestinian fight." in fact, they DO sacrifice Palestinians. they hide in tunnels while rockets fall on innocent civilians. and they control the media in the Gaza strip, so most news that's reiterating from Gaza is verified and certified by these genocidal freaks who believe that when they explode and take away Jews with them they end with 72 virgins.
 
Has anyone said anything about Jews in this topic? I'm pretty sure just about everyone, and certainly everyone that's been posting here in the past few days, has been VERY CLEAR that they've been talking about Israel - and the leadership and military of Israel at that - rather than the Jewish people as a whole. Is it something that should be reiterated every couple of pages, the same way that it feels we have to continually denounce Hamas despite having been clear we don't support them?

To try and say or insinuate that anyone here is comparable to Hitler for supporting the civilians of Gaza, even in an abstract way, is absolutely outrageous and I'd ask that you stop immediately because it's ridiculously out of order.
 
none


girl... :eyes: you're accusing me of "seeing what i want to see" when you are drenched with devious Hamas propaganda.

imagine believing stories and news about Jews spread by an Islamist terrorist sect that beheads Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc. and running with them as facts.

sometimes it's HARD to believe that Europe stood by and watched as Hitler slaughtered, starved, and gassed 6 million Jews three generations ago, but seeing so many people willingly jump to swallow and spread ISIS-like sects' propaganda about Jews makes everything look so much clearer.

no, not all the people who die are "civilians," THOUSANDS are Hamas terrorists who are dressed as civilians.
no, Israel does not "target and kill innocent civilians on safe routes," in fact Israel constantly leads Gazans to safer routes and informs them when and WHERE there will be bombings to escape.
and no, Israel does not bomb hospitals, caps, and UN refugee points if they do not believe it's been infiltrated by Hamas.

many people here DON'T understand Hamas.

these people (Hamas, not Israel) believe that the MORE Gazans DIE, the better. they believe that they are all martyrs. they don't mind sacrificing as many innocent Gazans as they wish for the "Palestinian fight." in fact, they DO sacrifice Palestinians. they hide in tunnels while rockets fall on innocent civilians. and they control the media in the Gaza strip, so most news that's reiterating from Gaza is verified and certified by these genocidal freaks who believe that when they explode and take away Jews with them they end with 72 virgins.

Just a reminder that we expect this thread to remain civil, factual and productive. You’re sailing incredibly close the wind.
 
calling what's happening a "genocide" - meaning there's an intent to maximize the number of dead innocent civilians, is anti-semitic.

it is deeply rooted in the idea that Jews are inherently evil.

The Israeli Government.

Not Jews.

Why can't this be distinguished? It's only been mentioned three thousand times.

Most people who are arguing against the actions of the Israeli government are doing their very best to separate Israel from Jews. It's only the pro-Israel argument that seems intent on bundling them together. Why anyone would want to be associated with that government right now is beyond me!
 
...and children in Israel are de facto taught violence and hostility towards Hamas and the West Bank

It helps your argument when you recognise both sides of the problem. It's also why nobody is taking the Israeli government argument seriously right now.
Genuine question - did you mean Palestinians here?
 
Genuine question - did you mean Palestinians here?

No I was just talking about the point in reverse. While children being taught violence against Hamas might not be as bad as being taught violence against Gazans, the point was that children shouldn’t be getting taught violence against anyone, whether they’re terrorists or civilians. It’s a sorry state.
 
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Just reading back over the last couple of pages and it's pretty grim. To back up @big ron I need to give a general reminder to separate Hamas and the Israeli government from Islam and Judaism when posting in this thread.

Criticise the regimes all you want but please don't think it's acceptable to use this situation to make crass comments about either religion.

I never post in this thread because, honestly, my brain would melt, but for my two pence flinging around accusations of antisemitism when Israel is criticised is not only grossly unfair but also wilfully ignorant of the beliefs and values of the wider forum. If this were any other two countries, Moopy's overall stance would be the same - look at the Russia/Ukraine thread. The Israeli government is being called out as the aggressor; this doesn't equate to an attack on Jewish people nor does it mean Hamas are exonerated for the atrocities in October.

If anyone feels a post HAS crossed a line into antisemitism, PLEASE report it or reach out to one of the mods to let us know you're uncomfortable with the direction the thread is taking.
 
GAZA: More than 10 children a day lose a limb in three months of brutal conflict
More than 10 children per day, on average, have lost one or both of their legs in Gaza since conflict erupted three months ago, said Save the Children.

Since 7 October, more than 1,000 children have had one or both legs amputated,according to UNICEF. Many of these operations on children were done without anaesthetic, with the healthcare system in Gaza crippled by the conflict, and major shortages of doctors and nurses, and medical supplies like anaesthesia and antibiotics, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).

While 13 out of Gaza's 36 hospitals remain partially functional, they are operating on a partial and fluctuating basis, dependent on their access to fuel and basic medical supplies on any given day. The nine partially functional hospitals in the south are operating at three times their capacity, while facing critical shortages of basic supplies and fuel. In addition, only 30% of Gaza's pre-conflict medics are still working, according to the WHO.
 
i really have been trying to be respectful and civil in this discussion. i'm sorry if i'm coming off a bit snarky. i'm just offering a strongly pro-Israel stance because Moopy is predominently pro-Palestine. (i did mention i am both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine). i'm not using stan lingo to be cynical but to lighten up the room. it's also hard not to use stan lingo with all these avatars staring at me.

@Funky "this is not about anti-semitism, this is about the Israeli government"

it is not about the Israeli government, it is about hatred towards the Jewish government.

how many outraged girlies were raging (online and on the streets) when the Afghanistani, Congolese, Sudanese, and Yemeni government were killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the last decade?

let's be real. the outrage about Gaza is mainly driven by hatred towards Jews.

no one was this mad when 15 million Yemeni children were starving and displaced or when nearly 1 million Congolese were killed. and i'm not saying "everyone was silent about those other conflicts, so let's be silent about this one," but i'm saying "everyone was silent about those conflicts, but are fuming about this one because they hate Jews."

and i bring up Hitler because people in the West tend to believe they're past anti-semitism... we're not.
 
i really have been trying to be respectful and civil in this discussion. i'm sorry if i'm coming off a bit snarky. i'm just offering a strongly pro-Israel stance because Moopy is predominently pro-Palestine. (i did mention i am both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine). i'm not using stan lingo to be cynical but to lighten up the room. it's also hard not to use stan lingo with all these avatars staring at me.

@Funky "this is not about anti-semitism, this is about the Israeli government"

it is not about the Israeli government, it is about hatred towards the Jewish government.

how many outraged girlies were raging (online and on the streets) when the Afghanistani, Congolese, Sudanese, and Yemeni government were killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the last decade?

let's be real. the outrage about Gaza is mainly driven by hatred towards Jews.

no one was this mad when 15 million Yemeni children were starving and displaced or when nearly 1 million Congolese were killed. and i'm not saying "everyone was silent about those other conflicts, so let's be silent about this one," but i'm saying "everyone was silent about those conflicts, but are fuming about this one because they hate Jews."

and i bring up Hitler because people in the West tend to believe they're past anti-semitism... we're not.

You're using language like 'devious' and using tropes about Muslims dying to meet virgins. If the tables were turned and someone used the term 'devious Israel' or making broad statements about Jewish stereotypes we would step in and stop that behaviour, so again, please stop it. Stop with the whataboutary and stop conflating criticism of the IDF and current Israeli military action with antisemitism, it isn't helpful and it isn't within the rules defined in this thread.
 
reducing this to "oh just lightening up the room" :D fucking hell
 
so it's islamophobic to point out the fact that Hamas WANT their people to die to become martyrs?

 
another video of a speech of a woman encouraging Palestinians to be sacrificed as martyrs to kill the Jews and go to heaven

 
live on Palestinian tv:

"we need to die, and take out the Jews with us, for Allah"

 
let's be real. the outrage about Gaza is mainly driven by hatred towards Jews.
you can't even seem to imagine this which is in itself really quite telling, but that "outrage" is driven by concern for an entire people who already exist in very tiny numbers in a very tiny space being systematically wiped out via bombing, famine and other brutal methods of warfare. and a sense that that is happening so fast, we can't stand by and be complicit. which is something that many Jewish people across the world and many inside Israel share - are they also anti-semitic? or just anti-genocide? do they maybe not want to do to another marginalised community of people what was done to their people in WWII?

you call yourself pro-Israel and pro-Palestine, but that's a blatant lie and a pretty shameful thing to be claiming after what you've been coming out with in this thread. you seem to believe all Palestinians are Hamas and if they're not they're necessary collateral damage because Hamas is among them. that is Islamophobic, but you're too dismissive of the Palestinian people's suffering to realise or care that that's what you are.

to your provocation about wars in other countries that get little coverage - you can only get people mad about war if it's reported on, we all know the media is racist, we also know that wars involving white or pale people will always get more traction in western media, hence Ukraine also. and as it happens Israel is perfectly happy for this to be the war everyone is talking about, that's why they've been playing the PR game so hard. this outrage is a result of all these eyeballs on what's happening in Gaza and people having a basic understanding of what's right and wrong. taking steps with intent to wipe out 2 million Palestinians from a place they should be able to live freely is wrong. if you can't see that, shame on you.
 
so why was there deafening silence (from people and the media) when hundreds of thousands of Afghans, Sudanese, Yemenis, etc. were systematically massacred in the past few years?
A lack of interest/ knowledge. Israel is essentially a western state, therefore their actions always draw more interest. It's their bullish aggresive actions that most people don't like. Their religion is nothing to do with it. You're mistaking some very loud voices on social media, with the reality. Most people also hate the Holocaust. More than one thing can be true at the same time.
 
how many outraged girlies were raging (online and on the streets) when the Afghanistani, Congolese, Sudanese, and Yemeni government were killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the last decade?

let's be real. the outrage about Gaza is mainly driven by hatred towards Jews.

The hypocracy when it comes to that is absolutely something to discuss (and we have in the past).

But to say that it’s mainly driven by anti-semitism is wrong, at least not when it comes to liberals/left wing in the West.

As mentioned above it is because Israel is percieved as a Western country (it isn’t really, but that’s another question) but also, and as expressed earlier by Cob for instance, it’s because our Western governments are more involved in it. By protesting you’re also protesting against your own government’s actions (in the hope to make a change locally).
 
As mentioned above it is because Israel is percieved as a Western country (it isn’t really, but that’s another question) but also, and as expressed earlier by Cob for instance, it’s because our Western governments are more involved in it. By protesting you’re also protesting against your own government’s actions (in the hope to make a change locally).

the West is involved in all the conflicts and wars i mentioned though.
 
you seem to believe all Palestinians are Hamas and if they're not they're necessary collateral damage because Hamas is among them. that is Islamophobic, but you're too dismissive of the Palestinian people's suffering to realise or care that that's what you are.

i've never claimed that all Palestinians are hamas, or deserve to die?
 
the West is involved in all the conflicts and wars i mentioned though.

Not as directly and openly supporting one side and it’s not as covered in the media so that people in general know about it.

(You average girlie barely knows the difference between Sudan and DRC/Congo)
 
I dislike:

The holocaust
Israel repression of Palestinians
The events of October 7th
The carpet bombing of Gaza.

By @joanne understanding I'm anti-Nazi, antisemitic, Islamaphobic, pro-Israel, pro-Hamas and pro-Jewish.

Stop pinning basic labels on other people.
 
Not as directly and openly supporting one side and it’s not as covered in the media so that people in general know about it.

(You average girlie barely knows the difference between Sudan and DRC/Congo)

the average girlie doesn't even know what river and what sea they're talking about when they chant "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free," when that chant in reality calls for the eradication of the entire Jewish state.
 
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