The Israel-Gaza war and wider Middle-East tensions

Some interesting partisan reporting

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@COB

I say this with love and don't stop on my account, but don't you find the deep dives into the conflict a little wearing on the soul?
 
Of course I do, but this is a massive humanitarian crisis being enabled by our own country and its allies and it feels like everyone's just become resigned to it. The situation feels so hopeless, and it feels like the very least I can do is try and share information and the words of those being affected by it. I don't really know what else to do :(
 
COB said:
I fundamentally disagree with the concept of an ethnostate, yes - whatever the ethnicity may be.
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typically, you wouldn't understand the need for an "ethnostate" if your ethnic group wasn't subject to a mass slaughter of 6 million people a few generations ago.
 
Israel forever.

If you get offended by that. Sort of good. It's just how I fall. I won't ever forget the first neighbors I had - those with the tattoos - but also very tasty cakes (that need milk because they're very dense). And cakes always wins over bitterness.
 
I can’t say I understand that post at all, but the cake thing is almost a metaphor for how Israel shouldn’t kill innocent people, and should instead try to improve their lives (for the good of all parties involved)
 
RJN said:
I can’t say I understand that post at all, but the cake thing is almost a metaphor for how Israel shouldn’t kill innocent people, and should instead try to improve their lives (for the good of all parties involved)
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Yeah, that's sounds great, let's eat cake.
 
joanne said:
last time Israel left Gaza, Hamas took over, and here we are...
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Yes, true, but let’s not forget that the Likud party has encouraged Hamas’ existence and its feud with Fatah. Also it’s not like Gaza was a free territory either.
 
Netanyahu is a fool, most Israelis agree on this.

the facts remain: Hamas has gained massive support in the West Bank, and the main reason the West Bank hasn't had elections in eons is because Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) is sure that Hamas would win the elections. if anything, IMO, Israel has to wield more power and control over the West Bank for it to stop being a hotbed for Hamas.
 
joanne said:
Netanyahu is a fool, most Israelis agree on this.

the facts remain: Hamas has gained massive support in the West Bank, and the main reason the West Bank hasn't had elections in eons is because Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) is sure that Hamas would win the elections. if anything, IMO, Israel has to wield more power and control over the West Bank for it to stop being a hotbed for Hamas.
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Yeah, because that would make life better for everyone. :eyes:


What needs to happen is improving living standards for the Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza so that they don’t feel the need to support Hamas or other fundamentalists. This is where maybe a willing UAE and Saudiarabia could come in handy. I read somewhere that the UAE already has a Fatah candidate ready to be installed but that Bibi is against it…
 
RaspberrySwirl said:
Yeah, because that would make life better for everyone. :eyes:


What needs to happen is improving living standards for the Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza so that they don’t feel the need to support Hamas or other fundamentalists. This is where maybe a willing UAE and Saudiarabia could come in handy. I read somewhere that the UAE already has a Fatah candidate ready to be installed but that Bibi is against it…
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Israel was already improving the living standards for Gazans before October 7. right now, Israel has become completely disillusioned. 83% of Israelis support the transfer of Gazans out of Gaza because they gave up.

some girls here are stuck in October 6. :eyes:
 
if Gaza was in Europe and actively trying to massacre europeans, best BELIEVE the majority of Europeans would be supporting the "ethnic cleansing" of Gaza.
 
joanne said:
Israel was already improving the living standards for Gazans before October 7.
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If they ever did, then unfortunately it was too little and too late.

I want Hamas gone too but you don’t seem to understand that more repression is what creates a breeding ground for groups like Hamas.
 
Also, I think your source is inconsistent because here she is celebrating something similar when it was a Ukrainian child:
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joanne said:
the facts remain: Hamas has gained massive support in the West Bank, and the main reason the West Bank hasn't had elections in eons is because Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) is sure that Hamas would win the elections.
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joanne said:
Israel was already improving the living standards for Gazans before October 7.
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Both things can’t be true at the same time.
 
I think it's incredibly rich that someone who previously accused other posters of spreading 'propaganda' is now posting propaganda from an account that's spread multiple debunked narratives (among many others she was a major pusher of the hospital whiteboard that apparently contained lists of targets - used to prove it was a Hamas command centre and help justify attacking it - but was immediately confirmed by Arabic speakers to just be a calendar), and in the service of trying to dehumanise children of all things.
 
The fact we're still having the same discussions nearly 25,000 deaths later is honestly sickening to me. How much is going to be enough?
 
The minute Hamas gives up the hostages and surrenders, this is all over.
Everyone knows it.
 
Shaib said:
The minute Hamas gives up the hostages and surrenders, this is all over.
Everyone knows it.
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Quite possibly the most naive post I've ever read on moopy.

Unless of course you're trolling, in which case, congratulations, it's a pretty good burn.
 
This will never be over until everyone in Israel/Gaza/West Bank has their basic needs met and is able to feel at least somewhat safe. People feeling in danger, or worse, starving to death, are just going to be pushed into more extremism
 
Pretty sure this runs deeper than "living standards". Thinking THAT is naive. The animosity between these groups is very personal and very entrenched. But the West has this stupid habit of looking from the outside and philosophizing.
 
COB said:
I think it's incredibly rich that someone who previously accused other posters of spreading 'propaganda' is now posting propaganda from an account that's spread multiple debunked narratives (among many others she was a major pusher of the hospital whiteboard that apparently contained lists of targets - used to prove it was a Hamas command centre and help justify attacking it - but was immediately confirmed by Arabic speakers to just be a calendar), and in the service of trying to dehumanise children of all things.
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just because she has posted "debunked narratives" it does not mean that the post that i linked her is debunked or false?

children in Hamas and the West Bank are de facto taught violence and hostility towards Israel.
 
KindaCool said:
Pretty sure this runs deeper than "living standards". Thinking THAT is naive. The animosity between these groups is very personal and very entrenched. But the West has this stupid habit of looking from the outside and philosophizing.
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Of course living standards won’t fix things, but it’s the bare minimum before any sort of actual plan or treaty or whatever has a chance of happening
 
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KindaCool said:
Pretty sure this runs deeper than "living standards".
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i screamed.

it's true. it has very little to do with living standards and very much to do with the inherit idea that Jews are evil colonial devils that need to be eradicated from the Middle East (and the rest of the world).
 
joanne said:
i screamed.

it's true. it has very little to do with living standards and very much to do with the inherit idea that Jews are evil colonial devils that need to be eradicated from the Middle East (and the rest of the world).
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You need to get a grip of yourself. Very little to do with living standards?

THEY'RE IN AN OPEN AIR PRISON THATS JUST BEEN BOMBED INTO FAMNINE.
 
joanne said:
i screamed.

it's true. it has very little to do with living standards and very much to do with the inherit idea that Jews are evil colonial devils that need to be eradicated from the Middle East (and the rest of the world).
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Most people don’t think that. Maybe some do, but some (not all) Israelis and their supporters have equally terrible view of Palestinians. It’s really unfair to characterize everyone who cares about Gazans like that
 
KindaCool said:
Pretty sure this runs deeper than "living standards". Thinking THAT is naive. The animosity between these groups is very personal and very entrenched. But the West has this stupid habit of looking from the outside and philosophizing.
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That’s why a one state solution wouldn’t work (if the two groups are meant to stay in the area) but an independent and functioning state for the Palestinians where their living standards are improved is a less of a breeding ground for terrorists than the current situation.
 
joanne said:
just because she has posted "debunked narratives" it does not mean that the post that i linked her is debunked or false?

children in Hamas and the West Bank are de facto taught violence and hostility towards Israel.
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...and children in Israel are de facto taught violence and hostility towards Hamas and the West Bank

It helps your argument when you recognise both sides of the problem. It's also why nobody is taking the Israeli government argument seriously right now.
 
RJN said:
Of course living standards won’t fix things, but it’s the bare minimum before any sort of actual plan or treaty or whatever has a chance of happening
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If by "bare minimum" you mean a temporary fix that won't do shit to fix the problem, then sure. The horrible living standards are but one of the many symptoms of this conflict. As long as the two keep beefing, boosting living standards will continue to be a futile and cosmetic short-term bandaid that will need to be CONSTANTLY rebuilt. It'll help individuals in the meantime, sure, but it will bring this conflict no closer to its end.
 
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