Eurovision 2022: THE FINAL (20:00 BST)

This was an historic night (applies for both UK and Spain) that we are not going to live again. Even if we start being successful every year (as if!) it won't be the same. Coming from the absolute bottom year after year (often very deserved), nobody saw it coming, no matter the hype this year and the undeniable quality of the entries. I was warning my friends that the jury wasn't going to be that generous with something like SloMo, just to make sure they didn't get too upset before the televote, so when 12s were starting to fly I couldn't believe it.

The result is great, reading some people here saying that Ukraine won because people were sorry for them and they didn't deserve it (and then the narrative that we would beat UK without those Ukraine votes with lots of pointless analysis, who cares?!) makes me sad. It was't pity, it wasn't even politics, it was solidarity and humanity. I got emotional when Ukraine took the stage, thinking of those poor people watching this from a basement, and I totally understand why people voted for them as a way to tell them we think of them and we care about them. Didn't Eurovision start after WWII as a way to unite Europe? Well there you go, probably not the best song, but nothing is wrong with people voting with their heart. Don't they hand fucking Oscars to actors who are about to die for any random movie? I don't see that many people complaining about that. A third place is amazing and it feels like a win. Thank you Europe.
 






Interesting that they had no idea that they wouldn't be allowed to give their votes.
It's also a little confusing why we were not told either and were left to believe Martin's votes were theirs and that they've had connection problems.
 
Last edited:
Alla said:
This was an historic night (applies for both UK and Spain) that we are not going to live again. Even if we start being successful every year (as if!) it won't be the same. Coming from the absolute bottom year after year (often very deserved), nobody saw it coming, no matter the hype this year and the undeniable quality of the entries. I was warning my friends that the jury wasn't going to be that generous with something like SloMo, just to make sure they didn't get too upset before the televote, so when 12s were starting to fly I couldn't believe it.

The result is great, reading some people here saying that Ukraine won because people were sorry for them and they didn't deserve it (and then the narrative that we would beat UK without those Ukraine votes with lots of pointless analysis, who cares?!) makes me sad. It was't pity, it wasn't even politics, it was solidarity and humanity. I got emotional when Ukraine took the stage, thinking of those poor people watching this from a basement, and I totally understand why people voted for them as a way to tell them we think of them and we care about them. Didn't Eurovision start after WWII as a way to unite Europe? Well there you go, probably not the best song, but nothing is wrong with people voting with their heart. Don't they hand fucking Oscars to actors who are about to die for any random movie? I don't see that many people complaining about that. A third place is amazing and it feels like a win. Thank you Europe.
Click to expand...

Yeah I felt like those people before the results, but now I’m with you. People get far too fixated on the winner when there are still great results. So what if people voted to show their solidarity for a cause? It’s not like that every year, I’m sure Conchita’s win had some element of a sympathy vote but that doesn’t diminish it.

And yes I find the “yeah but we were the REAL winner” or the “MORAL winner” narrative shitty from the UK, and the “Well we would’ve won if Ukraine weren’t there and XYZ happened” from Spain, and needs someone else to be knocked down for us to feel better.

There are plenty of other things to be happy about - UK the jury winner, both UK and Spain destroying their all-time records etc etc
 
Diddy said:
Yeah I felt like those people before the results
Click to expand...
Oh I think most of us felt like that when they were the favourites to win as soon as the war started, but it was impossible not to be moved and have some empathy during a live show that started with Give Peace a Chance. How can you be upset finishing 2nd/3rd coming from the absolute bottom? Let them have the trophy, we won more than that: police had to go to the airport this evening to rescue Chanel because the terminal was packed with people waiting for her. I've only seen this here with fucking football, she actually won (our hearts).
 
My sister is giving shelter to one of those Ukranian guys that are all over Europe right now, running away from war. He's 13 and she doesn't know how long he's staying. Russians killed his father, he didn't talk about that, but told her how they broke down the front door and took all his clothes and his PSP. She had never voted in Eurovision, I don't even know if she usually watches it. Well, she sent a solo vote for Ukraine last night, probably due to solidarity more than anything else. Now go and tell her that this is wrong. I have nothing more to say (and yes bank holidays tomorrow so still up).
 
Ive had the Ukrainian song in my head all day yesterday, it’s incredible, and I usually really dislike shouty rap. So yes there was an element of empathy, but I doubt they would have won by such a landslide if the song hadn’t been this great .. also, great pop is always more than the sum of its parts.
 
Queen of the Bay said:
Interesting that they had no idea that they wouldn't be allowed to give their votes.
It's also a little confusing why we were not told either and were left to believe Martin's votes were theirs and that they've had connection problems.
Click to expand...
I'm amazed this isn't being talked about more. This absolutely can't be the end of it; I assume the EBU are investigating what happened and will make an announcement at some point soon - if there was jury rigging going on that's a serious issue; if not then they made an almighty mistake.
 
I feel that whatever happened the manner the EBU handled whatever it thought there was the problem, both on and off-air is damaging to the contest and does a great disservice to anyone who managed to get a good placing. Am also worried about how will these 6 broadcasters that were directly affected by this come back next year and what kind of feelings their public will have for the contest hereafter. And I also find it very alarming that we as a whole were actually LIED to during the contest and were led to believe these were the actual jury votes.

Btw as for the made-up jury votes, Martin gave the exact same jury vote for Poland and Romania because they were treated as if they were a soup of Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Moldova with no national characteristics and individual differences while Montenegro was treated as if it was a combo of Albania, Croatia, North Macedonia, Croatia and Slovenia.



Similarly the exact same jury vote was given for Azerbaijan and Georgia, based on a soup of Armenia, Israel and Ukraine while San Marino was treated like a combo of Bulgaria, Cyprus, Greece, Malta and Portugal.



Meanwhile, the broadcasters who the EBU after the contest insinuated as being fraudsters have asked for explanations, here's the Romanian broadcaster's statement.

It verifies what we understand from their spokespersons' social media: they had no idea their results would be scrapped, they had no idea made-up results would be given in their name, they voted differently than how it was presented during the show that they had voted, they weren't approached or contacted or informed or charged with any allegation or information by the EBU, not before, during or even after the contest or the semis, they basically realized on their own that their scores were sent to the bin, and they have asked the EBU for official clarifications of the reasons behind this treatment.
 
Thank you so much for posting those tweets @Queen of the Bay . I hate not having the detail.

This reply was insightful too - I don’t think I’ve seen the exponential weighting formula confirmed before:

 
Am not sure but I suppose the last pic on this tweet is meant to be the actual Romanian jury vote.



Edit: Thanks Madison, I didn't see it right away.
 
Last edited:
Another thing that I don't understand is this. If the irregularities were found and were about the 2nd Semi Final as the EBU announcement says, why did the jury votes of those 6 countries were count towards the result of that specific Semi? Wouldn't it make more sense to scrap them on the night the irregularity was related to instead of the Final night where no irregularity was implied? Why would they ruin the final? And also why wouldn't they contact the broadcasters to inform of the problem, ask for an investigation in the event of suspicion about the juries or even require from the juries a second vote? It's not as if these results are presented to us in real time. On top of this they've had two extra days to sort this out before the Final, they could have even have time to make changes to the qualifiers of Semi2 and provide press releases and justifications in the unlikely event that this was needed, yet up until the last minute they were rehearsing with the spokespersons as if nothing has happened. The more I think about it the less sense I find.
And also why anyone would either cheat or present unreal jury votes, especially in a year like this one where it was common sense to everyone, broadcasters included that Ukraine was winning. Who would benefit from this? Could it be the bookmakers? Could a last-minute shuffle of the cards make a difference in their profits? Idk perhaps am going crazy, perhaps I should get some sleep.
 
Last edited:
Queen of the Bay said:
Am not sure but I suppose the last pic on this tweet is meant to be the actual Romanian jury vote.



Edit: Thanks Madison, I didn't see it right away.
Click to expand...

Yeah someone should split this thread, because I need to reply to this but I feel like this is not the right place. Anyway, this is not TVE, it's one channel in particular, we also have our own d*ily m*ils and tvs that live for these dramas. They interviewed (I would link you but it's in Spanish) a woman from the Romanian Delegation who said they have officially asked the UER why they changed their votes. With their original votes Spain would have finished second, so that's their narrative to stir shit. Because they are ignoring (on purpose I guess) the UER changed more votes, with San Marino giving us 12 points out of the blue, so I would shut up before we find ourselves behind Sweden.
Anyway this is something big and I guess there's going to be some actions, I doubt Cyprus is going to be there in 2023 after what happened in the semifinal. Can't they just rig their own preselections like a certain country and have a fair competition after that?
 
I understand that the interest in Spain is whether Sam would be 3rd and Chanel would be 2nd but I find it very ridiculous to be concerned about possible changes in the positions, the televote was clear enough about who's the winner and the discussion about the rest of the placing takes the interest out of what it is really important. And what is really important to me is what classifies as abnormality in voting, who gets to define sth as such and under what criteria, why did the EBU didn't say anything for 2 days and waited for the final to end to issue the statement, why did it handle this at the very last minute, weren't there any other ways to sort this out, and also how does this soup thing of EBU jury vote gets legitimacy cause I find the whole idea behind it ranging from excessive stereotyping to complete racism and reductiveness. Are we really accepting the notion that for example "those Caucasus countries are all the same"? Cause that's basically the rationale am getting that is behind that EBU jury vote.
 
Queen of the Bay said:
I understand that the interest in Spain is whether Sam would be 3rd and Chanel would be 2nd but I find it very ridiculous to be concerned about possible changes in the positions
Click to expand...
I personally have no interest, it doesn't matter, it doesn't change the fact that there is a clear winner and that we did amazingly well.

Queen of the Bay said:
And what is really important to me is what classifies as abnormality in voting
Click to expand...
Same, I want to know what the hell is going on and who's buying votes. Names, I want names.
 
Seriously though some aspects of this truly are outrageous.
The simplicity and ignorance and naiveness of considering the voting of Armenia for example as relevant to the voting of Azerbaijan.
"Oh look they're both over there, potayto, potahto!"
 
Also the audacity of allowing 3 of those countries have their spokenperson giving the 12 points because it was the same one, but changing all their other votes without telling them, imagine one of them realises and stops the whole thing :D
 
I’ve always assumed the pots are decided algorithmically rather than reflecting human bias. It wouldn’t surprise me if Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia’s votes are the most closely correlated - with high points for Russia and Ukraine each year.

I’m disappointed the synthetic model isn’t more sophisticated - using a regression model for each country to say Azerbaijan specifically is 32% Russia, 28% Georgia, 25% Ukraine, 10% Armenia and 5% Malta.

(I’m impressed however that they were able to cope with multiple disqualifications in the same pot! I don’t think I would have had the foresight).
 
Madison said:
It wouldn’t surprise me if Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia’s votes are the most closely correlated - with high points for Russia and Ukraine each year.
Click to expand...
It's not a scientific comparison obviously and I understand the artistic liberties am taking :D but I can't do the comparison quickly in any other way.
So I took into account the history of the 10 most usual recipients of points awarded by each of the countries on the Armenian pot (data from the escstats.com) excluding the countries that no longer exist by the names under which they were awarded points and compared them with how Armenia seems to be voting.

And you are right about Azerbaijan and Armenia (it looks like they are the closest match on the pot, but still quite different)
It looks like this.

1652790340471.png


I still feel that the pot soup thing is very arbitrary to be used as a valid alternative by the EBU.
 
They do have models for this sort of thing though don’t they? I mean that’s how the pot systems for the semi final draws is done - they find who votes a particular way (in that case a mutually beneficial way) and split them up.

This is the whole counter argument to political voting - that geographically close countries are more into the same sorts of things than other further countries because of shared cultural spheres (even if they hate each other).

Frankly I’d be more suspicious if they said for example Romania votes similarly to Iceland, Australia and Belgium so base their vote on them
 
Bit late to the party here but a close friend from Australia who I haven't seen in nearly 4 years surprised me over the weekend which meant I didn't get to watch Eurovision live as there was a party planned on the Saturday.

I managed to get home about 1am on Saturday evening and watched it with a friend and luckily had no idea who won or what the results were. I'm literally not ashamed to admit I was crying (I had been drinking since 1pm) during the results when Sam was getting 12s, it was honestly such a joy to watch us FINALLY doing so well. It still doesn't really feel real.
 
I was listening to his performance on repeat while cooking earlier, it really is a treat!
 
Connor said:
I'm catching up on the thread so apologies if this was answered, but it's the sensational Samanta Tina who represented Latvia in 2020 (cancelled) and 2021:




Bonus:

:queenofthenight::queenofthenight::queenofthenight:
Click to expand...



I'm gutted that clip #3 didn't sound like that without, I assume, a fan doing it? My jaw was about to snap off until I cottened on (well over halfway). Had no idea the contest was cancelled 2020 - I just assumed it went ahead without an audience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top Bottom