The Israel-Gaza war and wider Middle-East tensions

I do hope this puts paid to accusations that describing the situation as genocide is antisemitism. Whilst obviously not established as fact yet, it is clearly not a completely baseless accusation either.
 
COB said:
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That 'the toll on Israeli soldiers is now starting to get very high, in excess of 200 soldiers killed' really sounds like he's taking the piss following on from the 25000 he's just mentioned.
 


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Responding to such serious allegations and findings like an 8 year old in the playground is truly hideous
 
if they found that SA's evidence is sufficient to conclude that at least some claims of genocide are plausible, then why didn't they call for a ceasefire?
 
These latest hospital raids in Gaza are making me feel sick. What is this world we now live in?
 
I stopped posting about this because I just feel so totally useless. Nothing anyone does or says is going to change how this ends. I'm in genuine despair.
 
octophone said:
I stopped posting about this because I just feel so totally useless. Nothing anyone does or says is going to change how this ends. I'm in genuine despair.
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Same. Having to accept I don’t understand this world anymore.
 
Kratz said:
www.bbc.co.uk

UN: 'Convincing information' sexual violence committed against hostages in Gaza

The UN also found "reasonable grounds to believe" rapes took place during Hamas's 7 October attack.
www.bbc.co.uk
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ZenGiraffe said:
www.theguardian.com

Palestinians ‘beaten and sexually assaulted’ at Israeli detention centres, UN report claims

Internal analysis by UNRWA, based on interviews with released Palestinians, describes dog attacks and the prolonged use of stress positions
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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I’m not at all surprised by either of these. It’s been clear that both of the armies/fighters have been acting unethically this entire time. And my suspicious is that, sadly, these could be written about most armies in the world
 
Dark Carnival said:
Yes, that’s exactly the same :goodgrief:
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Yep. It's exactly the same.

Germany invaded Czechoslovakia, Russia invaded Ukraine and Hamas/Gaza invaded Israel. These are the facts.

Hamas/Gaza knew exactly what they were gonna get in response to the deadliest terror attack in history that they launched on October 7th. Now they try to play the victim. :side-eye:

What's next? Osama Bin Laden asking for mercy?
 
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I didn’t post these posts in here, I posted them in the thread about Israel competing in Eurovision.
 
Voodoo said:
Did 500,000 German CIVILIANS deserve to die in WW2?
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I think the distinction lies in that the number of people killed by Germany during WW2 was in the tens of millions (if I recall correctly) whereas the amount of children killed by the Allies was significantly less.

Sometimes you have to accept some civilian losses in order to put a stop to a war and save more civilians in the long run.
 
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Voodoo said:
Yep. It's exactly the same.

Germany invaded Czechoslovakia, Russia invaded Ukraine and Hamas/Gaza invaded Israel. These are the facts.

Hamas/Gaza knew exactly what they were gonna get in response to the deadliest terror attack in history that they launched on October 7th. Now they try to play the victim. :side-eye:

What's next? Osama Bin Laden asking for mercy?
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What in the blue fuckery is this?

Hamas invaded Israel, deadliest terror attack in history? The same as WW2?

Are you trying to sound stupid?
 
I don’t understand how the comparison to WW2 is somehow supposed to absolve Israel of the deaths of all those civilians. Awful things were done in WW2. Two atomic bombs were dropped. Would Israel be justified in doing that to Gaza?
 
Voodoo said:
Right. Of course war is bad (and sad), but it is sometimes necessary in order to fight terror and evil.
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It’s not a war - in fact why does this thread call it a war? It’s a conflict, and a mass occupation and genocide by one government on a misplaced group of people.

Hamas is not a country or a government, so Israel is not conducting a war with them. Imagine if every country responded to a terrorist attack by killing ten thousand innocent people just because the terrorists occupied buildings near their homes.

Comparing it to WW2 is so fucking ignorant I’m stunned at the argument.
 
Honestly it’s been six long disgusting months of Israel’s disgusting slaughter of helpless civilians and I’m yet to hear one single, solitary, sensible argument that justifies the Israeli government strategy. Every time someone pipes up in defence of Israel they don’t make me question my belief that this is a massive crime against humanity, it just REINFORCES my belief that the defence of Israel as a government is some weird, obsessive, cult-like movement that lives in a self-perpetuating bubble of privileged ignorance. Dismissing the lives of these tragic souls who only want to live, and feed their children, and not wake up every day to bombs by, oh I don’t know, comparing Hamas to Hitler, or suggesting that they just happen to be in harms way of a larger issue (war is bad lol) is so fucking sick and serves to reduce further any hope I have for humanity.

I am so fucking done with this argument. Someone give me a fucking reason to believe that I’m wrong and that Israel hasn’t actually just destroyed any hope of a future for the younger generation who didn’t ask for this, and probably radicalised a whole new host of young men who won’t just target innocent Israelis but also innocent people around the world because the governments sat and watched and said not our problem as Gaza burned.

Fuck anyone who thinks this is OK. Fuck you and your blissful ignorance. I am done.
 
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and we’re only allowed to talk about it in certain threads because apparently there’s a ‘plurality of views’ on the issue of children being killed
 
I think the mods have a tough job there as they obviously don't want RAGE filled posts like mine spilling over into every forum. But I agree that you can't put a cap on this matter, it's too important. Threads should be allowed to evolve organically and if people want to be offensively stupid in the Eurovision forum then they should be called out in the Eurovision forum.
 
This is a fantastic long read for those struggling to understand the humanity behind supporting Palestinians and the inhumanity in supporting Israeli actions.

www.lrb.co.uk

Pankaj Mishra · The Shoah after Gaza

Memories of Jewish suffering at the hands of Nazis are the foundation on which most descriptions of extreme ideology and...
www.lrb.co.uk www.lrb.co.uk
 
Voodoo said:
Yep. It's exactly the same.

Germany invaded Czechoslovakia, Russia invaded Ukraine and Hamas/Gaza invaded Israel. These are the facts.

Hamas/Gaza knew exactly what they were gonna get in response to the deadliest terror attack in history that they launched on October 7th. Now they try to play the victim. :side-eye:

What's next? Osama Bin Laden asking for mercy?
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It really fucking isn't and this is a warning that if you keep trying to infer that the innocent Palestinian people are somehow complicit in the Hamas attack and deserve to starve to death, or making inferences that they are Nazis or comparable with other oppressors I will personal ban you from this website myself. Stop it.
 
I think the point @Voodoo was trying to make is that Hamas invaded Israel. That is a fact. In turn Hamas is the elected governmental authority of Gaza (granted it hasn’t held an election in a long time but polls tend to show strong public support on the ground - albeit difficult to know what the position is right now) and on that basis the attack on 7th October is akin to one state attacking another (and the other state, in this case Israel, then retaliating).

Perhaps I have interpreted it incorrectly but to me that doesn’t seem like an outrageous position that we cannot tolerate being articulated.
 
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