The Israel-Gaza war and wider Middle-East tensions

Hamas does not intend to wipe out Israel because it literally can’t.
Hamas may not be able to wipe Israel out (and I don't disagree with that statement), but that doesn't mean it doesn't want to. The destruction of the State of Israel is a basic tenent of what Hamas believes in - not neutralisation, diminishment or control - but its elimination. Also, whilst Hamas itself does not have the capability to inflict significant military damage on Israel, some of its allies do. Most notable amongst those likely to become engaged is Hezbollah (as opposed to Iran) and Hamas and Hezbollah are very different - the latter is far closer to a conventional army with much more advanced weaponry in much greater volumes.
 
Found this interesting from the court case, what South Africa seems to be expecting Israel to do tomorrow:
In the speeches to this court today, South Africa has chosen as you’ve heard, to avoid the sharing of graphic videos and photos. It has decided against turning this court into a theatre for spectacle. It knows as well as your excellencies the temptation for both sides in a dispute to parade pictures to shock.

South Africa’s application in this court today is built on a foundation of clear legal rights, not images, and the detailed material before the court is marshalled to show a case for provisional measures based firmly on this court’s prior decisions.
It certainly tracks with Israel's media/propaganda strategy. Hopefully the judges won't be swayed by it, but I can definitely see Israel using this to appeal to public opinion just as much if not more than legal opinion within The Hague.
 
Israel's defence?

People calling it Genocide are TOO WOKE

We live at a time when words are cheap. In an age of social media and identity politics, the temptation to reach for the most outrageous term to vilify and demonise, has become for many irresistible.

But if there is a place where words should still matter, where truth should still matter, it is surely a court of law.

The applicant has regrettably put before the court a profoundly distorted factual and legal picture.
 
Hamas may not be able to wipe Israel out (and I don't disagree with that statement), but that doesn't mean it doesn't want to. The destruction of the State of Israel is a basic tenent of what Hamas believes in - not neutralisation, diminishment or control - but its elimination. Also, whilst Hamas itself does not have the capability to inflict significant military damage on Israel, some of its allies do. Most notable amongst those likely to become engaged is Hezbollah (as opposed to Iran) and Hamas and Hezbollah are very different - the latter is far closer to a conventional army with much more advanced weaponry in much greater volumes.

Well obviously I know all of this and agree with you, but I was saying it in response to Israel’s supposed justification for bombing Gaza into dust. Hamas aren’t the threat they want to make out they are, at least not to justify the scale of their campaign.
 
If anyone fancies an aneurysm, a spokesman for the Israeli government has done an extended interview on the News Agents and is every bit as disingenuous as you'd fear.

The worst answer is his last, when he refuses to commit to following the judgement of the international court if it goes against Israel, only respecting it if it goes their way. Very Trumpy.

The podcast often sounds like a slightly more well spoken version of the arguments seen earlier in the thread.
 
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As opposed to Hamas "spokespeople"? Okay.
It's LITERALLY his job title

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If anyone fancies an aneurysm, a spokesman for the Israeli government has done an extended interview on the News Agents and is every bit as disingenuous as you'd fear.

The worst answer is his last, when he refuses to commit to following the judgement of the international court if it goes against Israel, only respecting it if it goes their way. Very Trumpy.

The podcast often sounds like a slightly more well spoken version of the arguments seen earlier in the thread.

He was on Newsnight the other night. Not a great advert for the Oxford Debating Society. Imagine choosing a spokesperson who delivers lines like a Bond villain.

 
he obliterated her.

people just want to pretend like Hamas doesn't exist and Israel is simply carpet bombing Gaza for fun.
 
this man just said "we must normalize massacres as the status quo" and the crowd CHEERED.



this was in London.
 
There were also thousands of Jewish people attending that rally, rather than it being a "no-go zone" as Suella says there. Also, and it probably doesn't need saying, but SUELLA.
 
you mean he meant the opposite, but "accidentally" said it. the crowd still cheered though, and i have a hard time believing any Jew would cheer after that remark.
 
Well I for one am TOTALLY CONVINCED by PILLAR OF THE COMMUNITY and ALL AROUND GOOD GAL SUELLA BRAVERMAN.

And whilst I admit that it does sound like that's what he said, it clearly makes no sense in the context and he clearly meant must not/mustn't.

But of course, bad faith actors always speak perfectly at each and every moment, captured on absolutely perfect recording equipment, don't they?
 
Fucking hell the revisionism happening in real time to justify Israel’s ‘war’ is truly unhinged

Suella weighing in of all people, I feel COMPLETELY reassured both sides are in good hands :rolleyes:

“The plan isn’t working” - no SHIT Sherlock, maybe Netanyahu has some part to play in that?
 
Well I for one am TOTALLY CONVINCED by PILLAR OF THE COMMUNITY and ALL AROUND GOOD GAL SUELLA BRAVERMAN.

And whilst I admit that it does sound like that's what he said, it clearly makes no sense in the context and he clearly meant must not/mustn't.

But of course, bad faith actors always speak perfectly at each and every moment, captured on absolutely perfect recording equipment, don't they?

i do believe he misspoke. but i'm rather horrified at the cheering he received after he misspoke.
 
i do believe he misspoke. but i'm rather horrified at the cheering he received after he misspoke.
Have you ever been in a crowd before? You often can't hear them properly and are cheering at the jist or what you assume is being said. Very few people, if any, would have been cheering because they thought they heard what DARLING SUELLA contends they were cheering for.
 
Anybody who has ever seen anybody speaking about anything in public before will realise that they’re quite clearly cheering because it’s the end of his speech.

Some people’s ability to interpret absolutely every facet of everything the other side says or does in the worst possible faith is staggering.
 
You can even see the edit. Edit: well, to me it comes at the first "s" in "massacres" there is a visible glitch. And speeches do tend to have a rhythm and expectation of deliveries - I'm quite sure if it wasn't an edited footage after all, that if the crowd were asked their responses wouldn't be cheers.
 
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Anybody who has ever seen anybody speaking about anything in public before will realise that they’re quite clearly cheering because it’s the end of his speech.

Some people’s ability to interpret absolutely every facet of everything the other side says or does in the worst possible faith is staggering.

There’s such a desperation on social media to find evidence that the West are calling for the end of Israel when it’s quite clear that 99.99% of it is peaceful protest aimed at ending the massacre of innocent Gazans.

It’s not helpful and it’s actually quite offensive - surely the daily deaths of children is worse than some booing at a rally?
 
I think that almost every person in the world thinks genocide is a bad thing, and would not cheer for it, regardless of their views on this or anything else
 
that's not entirely true, @RJN . Hamas brags about October 7 and many people celebrate it.

this is what one of the biggest pro-Palestine accounts on Twitter said yesterday (4k likes).

 
I know not everybody contributing to this thread is blessed with copious brain cells but this is all very embarrassing for the ones trying desperately to post anything in support of Israel's propaganda war.
 
Germany came out in support of Israel"s side in the ICJ case, which has caused the government of Namibia to issue this quite startling rebuke:
 

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