UK General Election 2024 - July 4th

How are you likely to vote?

  • Total voters
    67
lolly said:
I guess the trade off is potentially winning back disaffected Tories, rather than appealing to disaffected Labour voters.

Is she THAT scary and left wing, though?
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The Tories were scared enough of her to try and force her out over that dog shit tax-dodge story, from which she is now completely exonerated so their only option now is try and paint her as frighteningly left wing. She's likeable and articulate and the Tories have no-one who fits the first quality and very few who fit the latter.
 
I listened to that Badenoch interview. Useless and arrogant.

How is she touted as a potential leader? I guess once the bar was set as low as Truss, where do you go? I notice there's a very strong campaign to Portillo her.
 
It's six and two-threes because even if Badenoch is unseated, we'll still have Streeting and Duffield. But it would be absolutely delicious if she got the bin.
 
I am too confused Moopy!!

The island has been split in half for the election for the first time ever.

West Wight is where our shop is and I'm hoping labour get in because Richard Quigley is running and I love everything about him.

But I live in East Wight and don't really like our Labour candidate, she's not an islander and doesn't know much about the island.

So I'm thinking I may have to vote Green because I quite like the lady representing them and I generally like the Green party. But I'm worried it's a wasted vote :(
 
there are no wasted votes. votes for smaller parties like the Greens keep them funded and competitive. a better vote % than expected means they'll prioritise the campaign there next time round. vote Green!
 
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Rachey said:
I am too confused Moopy!!

The island has been split in half for the election for the first time ever.

West Wight is where our shop is and I'm hoping labour get in because Richard Quigley is running and I love everything about him.

But I live in East Wight and don't really like our Labour candidate, she's not an islander and doesn't know much about the island.

So I'm thinking I may have to vote Green because I quite like the lady representing them and I generally like the Green party. But I'm worried it's a wasted vote :(
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The labour landslide is so inevitable you might as well vote with your heart. And for at least ensuring the Green gets their deposit back.
 
Jark said:
there are no wasted votes. votes for smaller parties like the Greens keep them funded and competitive. a better vote % than expected means they'll prioritise the campaign there next time round. vote Green!
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Amazing thank you!! Green it is.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
The labour landslide is so inevitable you might as well vote with your heart. And for at least ensuring the Green gets their deposit back.
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At least if I vote Green and labour get in and I don't like some of what they do I can justifiably moan about them :D
 
According to electoral calculus, Labour have 100% chance of winning my seat. If that doesn't change, I'm voting Green.
 
Under our voting system there absolutely is such thing as a wasted vote. Until we get some sort of preferential system, vote with your head.

Ignore those on the left who’d just rather stay in opposition forever.
 
Lots of ‘winning the argument’ in this thread.

I’d rather stay pragmatic.
 
Rachey said:
I am too confused Moopy!!

The island has been split in half for the election for the first time ever.

West Wight is where our shop is and I'm hoping labour get in because Richard Quigley is running and I love everything about him.

But I live in East Wight and don't really like our Labour candidate, she's not an islander and doesn't know much about the island.

So I'm thinking I may have to vote Green because I quite like the lady representing them and I generally like the Green party. But I'm worried it's a wasted vote :(
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It may be worth bearing in mind that your Labour candidate is apparently the first openly transgender Labour candidate to run for Westminster and so potentially worth supporting just for that. You might also want to consider that Oddschecker says that your constituency may be quite close between Labour and the Tories, with the Greens nowhere.
 
dmlaw said:
It may be worth bearing in mind that your Labour candidate is apparently the first openly transgender Labour candidate to run for Westminster and so potentially worth supporting just for that. You might also want to consider that Oddschecker says that your constituency may be quite close between Labour and the Tories, with the Greens nowhere.
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Why would you confuse me like this 😭

Meh the openly transgender lesbian thing doesn't sway me I'm afraid. I have to like the person and what they stand for, although having an openly transgender candidate would be good. I haven't found a huge amount out about this person. She hasn't made much effort to engage with her voters at all, unlike Vix Lowthian for the Greens, or Richard Quigley for labour in the west.

Damn I wish I lived in the west.
 
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gggggg said:
Lots of ‘winning the argument’ in this thread.

I’d rather stay pragmatic.
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I don’t think that’s entirely fair. If it’s a marginal then you should absolutely vote tactically. But as mentioned above, helping your preferred party to demonstrate that they can perform well in your area can have long term benefits even if they have no chance of winning.

I’m definitely hoping that the Greens can continue building momentum in my constituency. It’s a safe Labour seat now, but in another election or two, maybe it’ll be less so.
 
VoR said:
I don’t think that’s entirely fair. If it’s a marginal then you should absolutely vote tactically. But as mentioned above, helping your preferred party to demonstrate that they can perform well in your area can have long term benefits even if they have no chance of winning.

I’m definitely hoping that the Greens can continue building momentum in my constituency. It’s a safe Labour seat now, but in another election or two, maybe it’ll be less so.
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No such thing as a safe seat these days. As the Conservatives are learning.
 
gggggg said:
Are you suggesting one or more of the major parties would legislate to murder you?
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The Tories have this very morning announced a policy to legislate to, at the very least, make it easier for other people to murder her.
 
gggggg said:
Under our voting system there absolutely is such thing as a wasted vote. Until we get some sort of preferential system, vote with your head.

Ignore those on the left who’d just rather stay in opposition forever.
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gggggg said:
Are you suggesting one or more of the major parties would legislate to murder you?
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Good lord you're the worst of us.
 
gggggg said:
No such thing as a safe seat these days. As the Conservatives are learning.
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I think it's pretty safe to say that the Tory party aren't going to grab any existing Labour seats in Leeds this time around :D

The only ones where Labour could be in trouble are the ones where their arrogant attempts to drop NEC SPADS into safe seats at the expense of popular local candidates have infuriated locals. And the one that, due to the years of ground work I already mentioned, the Greens actually do have a strong chance of unseating a Labour MP. (Bristol Central)

Oh and possibly Wes Streeting, again entirely because of his own actions rather than because left leaning people are shooting themselves in the foot to 'win the argument' in your words.
 
dmlaw said:
The Tories have this very morning announced a policy to legislate to, at the very least, make it easier for other people to murder her.
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Sorry, but spare me the hyperbole.

I know what it’s like to feel threatened by the direction a political party takes.
 
@gggggg I tend to agree with your pragmatic approach, but please don't minimise the threat the Tories pose towards trans people. Just look at the unpleasant way the PM spoke about them, in front of the mother of Brianna Ghey. It's not hyperbole to suggest many of them don't care if trans people live or die and they're starting that idelogical process with this proposed legislation.
 
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gggggg said:
Sorry, but spare me the hyperbole.

I know what it’s like to feel threatened by the direction a political party takes.
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I don't think there's any hyperbole here. If transgender people are denied access to domestic abuse shelters, they are more likely to remain in abusive relationships and are more likely to be killed by their partners. I'm not sure that's something to minimise.
 
Rachey said:
I am too confused Moopy!!

The island has been split in half for the election for the first time ever.

West Wight is where our shop is and I'm hoping labour get in because Richard Quigley is running and I love everything about him.

But I live in East Wight and don't really like our Labour candidate, she's not an islander and doesn't know much about the island.

So I'm thinking I may have to vote Green because I quite like the lady representing them and I generally like the Green party. But I'm worried it's a wasted vote :(
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You have a couple of options really that only your conscience can decide.

You can choose to vote tactically, voting for whoever has the best chance of getting the tories out of power. A noble enough objective with the view that anything is better than this, and once we have change we can push further.

Or you can vote with the party you closely associate best with in terms of policy.

Neither are bad choices. I’m still torn between the two and I’ll probably decide when I have a tiny pencil in my hand.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
Are you seriously, SERIOUSLY suggesting that @octophone doesn't!?

Maybe use your head, read and understand the situation, and apologise.
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No. I’m absolutely positive she does.

What I’m saying is nobody’s life is in danger due to the outcome of this election. Sorry, it just isn’t.
 
big ron said:
You have a couple of options really that only your conscience can decide.

You can choose to vote tactically, voting for whoever has the best chance of getting the tories out of power. A noble enough objective with the view that anything is better than this, and once we have change we can push further.

Or you can vote with the party you closely associate best with in terms of policy.

Neither are bad choices. I’m still torn between the two and I’ll probably decide when I have a tiny pencil in my hand.
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Thanks Ron. This has been a very helpful response. I'll do a bit more research and try to make a good decision!
 
In other more agreeable news there are two big sexy polls coming out today. Yougov's MRP should be really interesting as their MRPs have a good track record of being startlingly accurate.



 
AGinAg (39) said:
@gggggg I tend to agree with your pragmatic approach, but please don't minimise the threat the Tories pose towards trans people. Just look at the unpleasant way the PM spoke about them, in front of the mother of Brianna Ghey. It's not hyperbole to suggest many of them don't care if trans people live or die and they're starting that process with this proposed legislation.
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Obviously the policy is shit. Obviously they seek to victimise trans people. But with the greatest will in the world, and even at a stretch, I don’t think they want trans people to die, or are seeking that.
 
gggggg said:
What I’m saying is nobody’s life is in danger due to the outcome of this election. Sorry, it just isn’t.
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This ignores knock on effects of hostile policy on things like the suicide rate amongst the already most vulnerable and marginalised group in society.

Wes Streeting, soon to be Health Secretary, supports the ban on puberty blockers, so Labour really aren't much better either. I couldn't in good conscience tell trans people to suck it up and support them in the names of pragmatism. (Same for the SNP now that Kate Forbes is DFM)
 
gggggg said:
Obviously the policy is shit. Obviously they seek to victimise trans people. But with the greatest will in the world, and even at a stretch, I don’t think they want trans people to die, or are seeking that.
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I don't think they actively want trans people to die - it is more than they don't really care if they do. Collateral damage for votes.

That said - I don't think it is always that. Some of those doing this stuff are more in the camp of being well-meaning but deluded. With the change in approach to services for trans young people veering dangerously close to conversion therapy territory, I think a handful of transphobes are under the delusion that transitioning is essentially a choice rather than a necessity and that someone can simply not transition and still carve out an equally happy and productive life for themselves. I think a lot of homophobes have harboured the same delusion about gays at some point or another - "just get some mental health support and live as a gender non-confirming cis man/woman" is the new "just find the right man/woman and it will all work out". It's total bollocks believed only by people with no lived experience of or close relation to transness. It is also still fundamentally transphobic because it starts from a position of someone ending up trans as an undesirable outcome.

Both approaches have the same outcome - sowing the seeds for lifelong poor mental health, or worse. Of course, transitioning doesn't automatically solve people's mental health problems - but if you do transition then honestly I think 95% of the time any mental health issues related to that are due to other people making your life harder because you are trans.
 
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gggggg said:
Are you suggesting one or more of the major parties would legislate to murder you?
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This is so disingenuous that it barely merits a response.

The legislation that is proposed would restrict or remove access to basic services; to keep it simple, let's talk health care.

I go hillwalking. I fall and break my leg, also cutting it open. An ambulance is called and I am taken to hospital - I need surgery. But they can't admit me because they don't have anywhere to put me. I'm not allowed in a women's ward and they've been given legal exemption to refuse me access to the men's ward. They don't have anywhere for someone like me you see. The government said that they could designate some areas for trans people but the private company who owns the building nowadays decided not to spend the money.

The wound becomes septic. For want of basic medical treatment, I die.

That you went from my use of the word "survival" to the hideous overreaction of "are you suggesting one or more of the major parties would legislate to murder you?" shows how easily consent for these things is manufactured. To make a wild exaggeration and then accuse someone of exaggerating is nothing more than bullying.

Denial of access to healthcare, housing, employment etc, all of which have been mooted, will kill. Austerity is considered to have contributed to 90-100,000 excess deaths. But that's not "murder", is it? So, presumably you're fine with it.
 
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