Funky
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No they shouldn’t. And it’s a bit odd to assume this is an isolated moopy take. Most of the world disagrees with you.
Israel-Gaza War
- Thread starter GinAg (39)
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No they shouldn’t. And it’s a bit odd to assume this is an isolated moopy take. Most of the world disagrees with you.
gggggg
Gdryvcguonvxsed
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Why not? The people of Gaza are as much victims of Hamas. Why is it so hard to criticise them?
What I find astonishing is how quickly the events of Oct 7 were passed over, excused or forgotten about. Kind of within the same 24 hour period. I suppose the brutalisation of Jewish people is a bit fucking passé these days eh?
What I find astonishing is how quickly the events of Oct 7 were passed over, excused or forgotten about. Kind of within the same 24 hour period. I suppose the brutalisation of Jewish people is a bit fucking passé these days eh?
Oh COME ON, do we really have to do this? If you want to call people here antisemitic, just fucking name names and do it. Plenty of us have condemned Hamas and the attacks, you can do that AND still be utterly disgusted by Israel's response and the Western world's complicity in it.
Beverley
GUESS WHO’S BACK?!
39 infants who were under intensive care at Al Shifa hospital just died due to a lack of oxygen.
every conversation that tries to get us to focus on Hamas right now is a distraction
every conversation that tries to get us to focus on Hamas right now is a distraction
Saltwater
Ex QOTB
A couple of days after the bombardments started I saw a video of a lady from Gaza who was shouting "Hamas won't win, IDF won't win, we the people will win". If even in their most difficult hour the Palestinian people are able to make the distinction that neither Hamas represents themselves nor IDF represents the Israeli people, I think that I in the comfort of my couch should be able to at least do the same.
Unfortunately this thread is very one-sided.
Just let it go.
Funky
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I think the biggest problem I have with this minority movement of whataboutism is the bundling of blame of Hamas in killing the thousands of Palestinians. The argument is so empty when you can’t even recognise that the Israeli government - an actual UN-recognised government with an enormous weapons arsenal, not a splintered terrorist group of soldiers acting rogue - are the cause of this.
Hamas are scum, everyone already knew this. But I don’t know any other instance in the world where a government responds to a terrorist incident with actual genocide on a massive scale. And beyond the actual killing, if that wasn’t enough, Netenyahu has set back Israel and Middle East geopolitics decades with this. You can’t take back what has just happened and people won’t forget.
Labelling this as an example of how everyone hates Jews is so fucking lazy as well. My Jewish friends are horrified by Israel right now and so they should be. Nobody has any right to feel as isolated and as helpless as the people of Gaza right now - no government, no home, no food, no future, no hope.
gggggg
Gdryvcguonvxsed
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I’m sorry but suggesting that maybe the terrorist organisation who committed the inciting incident in this conflict might hold SOME responsibility isn’t whataboutism. That same group who are deeply embedded within every part of infrastructure within Gaza. That same group who are literally holding Israeli hostages, and using the people of Palestine as human shields.
A ceasefire, let alone peace, cannot be achieved unilaterally. In the same breath as condemning Israel’s actions and calling for a stop to the war, then the same MUST be said for Hamas putting down their weapons, releasing the hostages and working toward a two state solution. At the moment I don’t see the latter happening anywhere. I wonder why that is.
Thank you @Shaib i might just take your advice.
A ceasefire, let alone peace, cannot be achieved unilaterally. In the same breath as condemning Israel’s actions and calling for a stop to the war, then the same MUST be said for Hamas putting down their weapons, releasing the hostages and working toward a two state solution. At the moment I don’t see the latter happening anywhere. I wonder why that is.
Thank you @Shaib i might just take your advice.
ZenGiraffe
Who is SHE though?
I know what you are insinuating, but the simple answer is that Israel is a nation state with levers of power and the apparatus to enact policy change, as well as the responsibilities both to the letter and the spirit of international humanitarian law. They are in turn held to account by other nation states, whom we can protest within and demand they use their diplomacy (and resources or withholding thereof) to convince the Israeli government to change their approach to the conflict.
Palestine is not a nation state, and Hamas can't really be considered a government in the same sense as Likud and their coalition are. So it isn't comparable.
Finally, no one here has shown any support for Hamas' action on October 7th or more generally, so it should be taken as read that any poster condemns them and their actions, rather than engaging in the dictionary definition of whataboutism that only serves to shield Netanyahu and his government from criticism.
Funky
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Anyone could say the same about you. You’ve not once condemned the Israeli government for their atrocities. But nobody has accused you because this isn’t a tennis match to see whose actions is worse. Israel should absolutely be held to a different account. The assumptions made by the ‘what about Israelis’ narrative suggests a very defensive and one sided perspective. But who am I to judge.
Slightly separately, the other narrative for some people I’ve seen on social media which is getting my back up is “people should read up better and educate themselves on what Israel has to deal with, and not rely on propaganda”
That would be laughable if it wasn’t so irritating. Every western government wants us to believe that Israel is the victim here, and STILL the majority of people refuse to be driven by their steadfast will to protect Israel at the expense of Gaza. That is really telling and, to be honest, quite unprecedented.
Macron now calling for a ceasefire:
Hopefully this starts a chain reaction among EU leaders, I don't like him but fair play for saying this in the face of what's probably a lot of pressure not to. Alternatively, perhaps it's getting to the point that there's been so much death even Israel's staunchest allies HAVE to do this because they've realised how history will judge them if they don't.
Hopefully this starts a chain reaction among EU leaders, I don't like him but fair play for saying this in the face of what's probably a lot of pressure not to. Alternatively, perhaps it's getting to the point that there's been so much death even Israel's staunchest allies HAVE to do this because they've realised how history will judge them if they don't.
NEWSFLASH:
These so-called "hospitals & schools" are being used by Hamas to launch rockets on innocent civilians in Israel.
You're saying that mass scale genocide was the ONLY option? Given that many of Hamas' leaders are in Qatar, maybe Israel could have utilised their allegedly worldbeating diplomacy and intelligence services to either assassinate them or get them arrested/extradited? What's happening now didn't need to happen.Which ways exactly? I'm all ears.
FYI, Hamas uses civilians as HUMAN SHIELDS.
Sorry but I don't believe either of these videos, the second one in particular is allegedly footage of IDF training in tunnels made to look like ones Hamas might have. Visegrad 24 have been caught out posting loads of fake videos for engagement over the past month, too.
More than four thousand CHILDREN dead, listen to yourself.
ZenGiraffe
Who is SHE though?
Wait. Hang the fuck on.
Did someone just come on to the longe and cite BEN SHAPIRO to back then up?
Did someone just come on to the longe and cite BEN SHAPIRO to back then up?
Wait. Hang the fuck on.Wait. Hang the fuck on.
Did someone just come on to the longe and cite BEN SHAPIRO to back then up?
Do queers really stand with Palestine?
Solidarity isn't transactional! A lot of queer people support the Palestinian cause BECAUSE we know what it's like to face bigotry and violence in our lives. This is very obvious stuff, I'm actually finding it hard to believe these talking points are being brought up on Moopy to be honest.
ZenGiraffe
Who is SHE though?
Wait. Hang the fuck on.
Do queers really stand with Palestine?
Take this as an official warning.
Right wing trolls have no place on Moopy. Disagree all you like with other posters; put forward your point of view, but any more alt-right "memes" and you're getting a week off
Why? Is only far-left propaganda allowed on here?
Suomi
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1 child dead is too many
First of all Oli London is a far right provocateur and grifter so I don't believe a word he says, and secondly as I said before it doesn't matter what individual Palestinian people may think of gay people - they deserve to be free and not under constant threat of death.
According to the UN's Israeli ambassador, members of UN organisations providing aid in Gaza are in fact members of Hamas:
So should we take this at face value? Who won't they say is in Hamas if it justifies their actions? They've also claimed retrospectively that photojournalists who took pictures on 10/7 were legitimate targets because their work helped Hamas.
So should we take this at face value? Who won't they say is in Hamas if it justifies their actions? They've also claimed retrospectively that photojournalists who took pictures on 10/7 were legitimate targets because their work helped Hamas.
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